The real point where this argument falls apart is that modern AAA games almost exclusively use TAA, which ruins graphics. I’m so sick of shadows blurring and everything looking terrible and people saying it’s next level.
This is very weird and I am pretty sure it can be traced to some influencer ranting about something somewhere and I genuinely don’t have the energy to go trace it back.
If you are suggesting that I got this position from listening to an influencer, I’m afraid not. I earned this opinion through my own efforts.
I had three computers in a row experience horrible shadow blurring and nothing seemed to fix it. I spent maybe 100 hours meticulously troubleshooting what the hell was wrong before asking a computer savvy friend to come over and take a look, and he was just like “Oh, that’s just TAA, everyone’s computer looks like that.” And lo and behold, if you turn anti-aliasing off, it disappears.
It turns out everyone sees the same thing in almost every game, but until you notice it your brain just filters it out. In many modern games they don’t even give you the option to turn it off. I would have started a hate movement myself, but found out a r/fucktaa community already existed. No lemmy equivalent yet, I believe.
FWIW, it’s hard to tell from gifs, but that amount of ghosting and frame-blending is neither TAA nor a normal thing that is happening on everybody’s computers without them noticing.
I’m not entirely sure of what’s going on there, but your “computer savvy friend” was not right.
Thanks for the source, though. I had been noticing a bunch of people being simultaneously unclear about the difference between temporal antialiasing, temporal upscaling and antialiasing while somehow being extremely opinionated about it and I had no idea how it was going viral. “r/fucktaa” goes some ways towards explaining it. Also why this is probably going to get even more annoying over time as people latch on to yet another random bit of misinfo and run with it.
If those examples are really from your PC I am kinda curious to know what the hell is going on, though. What GPU are you using? Given the way you’re talking about it I’m assuming you aren’t running any custom post-processing via ReShade or any mods or anything like that?
If you had bothered to actually read my post you would realize that I found the sub after the fact.
FWIW, it’s hard to tell from gifs, but that amount of ghosting and frame-blending is neither TAA nor a normal thing that is happening on everybody’s computers without them noticing.
This is both reproducible and repeatable. I can reliably make it happen in several games, and it goes away completely when I turn off TAA in all cases. It has done this on all 3 of my previous computers, and it happened on two of my friend’s (who insisted it did not) computers when checked. I’m not running any custom post processing. All of our cards were Nvidia, so it’s possibly an Nvidia only thing, but even then the point stands.
I’m much more inclined to believe the effect I’ve done my due diligence to investigate is real, and that it’s simply too mild in most cases for people to notice, than believe some rude stranger with an uninformed “nu uh” and nothing else.
If you put some of that effort you put into sounding right into actually being right, you can find many clips of the same effect on youtube.
It’s not “an Nvidia-only thing”. It’s not a thing at all.
I mean, ghosting artifacts are a thing. Normally not a TAA thing, they are typically a problem with older upscaling methods (your FSR 1s and whatnot). You caaaan get something like that with bad raytracing denoising, but it doesn’t look like that. And your examples are extreme, so it’s either an edge case with a particular situation and a particular configuration or something else entirely.
This is one of those wild claims that become hard to disprove by being so detached from reality it’s hard to start. How do I disprove that hundreds of millions of people who have been gaming in games using TAA for about a decade aren’t constantly ignoring vaseline-smeared visuals on par with the absolute worst artifacts of early DLSS? I mean, I can tell you I played multiple games today and none of them do that, that I’ve played a ton of Cyberpunk and it doesn’t do that and that this is not the default state of a very well understood piece of technology.
It feels weird to even try to be nice about it and bargain. You MAY have stumbled upon a particular bug in a particular config or a game. You MAY be just mistaking “TAA” for temporal upscaling and just using some weird iteration of it in a worst case scenario. I mean, if you’re not outright trolling I can see what you call “too mild in most cases” just being some DLSS ghosting and you’re just lumping several things that cause ghosting as “TAA”. But all that is just… too much credit to the idea, if I’m being honest.
I’d still ike to know what specific GPUs you’re using and how you set up the games when it “happened” in all those computers. Direct video capture wouldn’t be a bad idea, either. I don’t know why I’m even entertaining this as anything other than some weird videogame iteration of flat earth stuff, but I’m still fascinated by how brazen it is and kinda want to know now.
It feels weird to even try to be nice about it and bargain.
This is you being nice?
The issues with TAA are so widely known, I’m surprised you can be ignorant of them. People in the know generally acknowledge it, but consider it worth the downsides for efficient AA. 99% of the time the effects are much less severe than what I posted, as I had to put in effort to find a moment to illustrate what was happening to diagnose it, but once you see it you can’t unsee it.
Essentially it’s like if I was talking about screen tearing, and you were arguing that screen tearing didn’t exist because “hundred of millions of people” weren’t experiencing it. Most people don’t even notice the screen tearing until you tell them it’s happening. The TAA blurring is even harder to spot. Also, people ARE experiencing the blurring, which is why enough people talk about it to annoy you. They also have documented evidence of the exact same thing I’m talking about, if you actually cared to look.
To be honest I’m not convinced you’re here in good faith and not to troll me, so I’m going to block you and move on. If you actually are curious, google “what are the issues with TAA” and plenty of people will have clips just like mine taken with capture software with their specs and settings listed.
No, there are definitely tradeoffs with TAA. Just… not extreme ghosting trails like the stuff you posted unless something is kinda glitchy. Which is where the weird layers of misinformation seem to be creeping out. You have a layer of people talking about how they find soft looking TAA images annoying and what seems to be an expanding blob of people attributing a whole bunch of other stuff to the thing as if it was the standard, which it absolutely isn’t.
FWIW, I took a peek at that subreddit and it’s mostly relatively informed nerds obsessing over maxing out for a specific thing (edge sharpness, presumably) over anything else. I was pleasantly surprised to see they’re not as much of a cultish thing where soft edges or upscaling are anathema and instead they mostly seem interested in sharing examples of places where temporal upscaling works better/worse than TAA.
Most of them are doing so in video so compressed it’s impossible to tell what looks better or worse than that, but hey, it’s at least not entirely delusional.
That’s a very random question asked in a very random place.
I don’t know, what year are we on and how am I feeling that day? I’ve played thousands of games, “my favorite” is entirely meaningless.
Currently I’m trying to find time to get through Expedition 33, I just found out that there is apparently a Tetris the Grand Master 4, so I’m messing around with that. I’ve booted up Capcom Fighting Collection 2, I am staring at the 80 bucks price point on Doom Dark Ages and reminding myself I won’t have time to play that for at least a few weeks and I should wait. Steam says my most played games are Metaphor Re: Fantazio, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Street Fighter 6 and Metal Gear V. Nintendo says it is Breath of the Wild. I have 100%-ed the Insomniac Spider-Man trilogy twice. I can beat Streets of Rage 2 in speedrun-worthy times and I’ve played through a bunch of 4.
This is not a question, it’s an existential crisis.
It might be less strange than you think. I’d like to clarify that I’m not trying to take away your gamer creds or anything.
I just wanted to know where your style was, if you had a preference for a certain type of graphical design, but it seems like you’re very widespread in interests with a (current) leaning towards modern games. I haven’t personally tried any of the games on your list because I can’t run them but they should be fun
Somebody once told me about cinephiles that “some people really like movies, other people really like the movies they like”.
I like games, man.
There are very few types of games I outright reject. At most I’ll tell you I’m pretty antisocial and I don’t like multiplayer stuff as much, but it’s not a hard rule.
The real point where this argument falls apart is that modern AAA games almost exclusively use TAA, which ruins graphics. I’m so sick of shadows blurring and everything looking terrible and people saying it’s next level.
This is very weird and I am pretty sure it can be traced to some influencer ranting about something somewhere and I genuinely don’t have the energy to go trace it back.
If you are suggesting that I got this position from listening to an influencer, I’m afraid not. I earned this opinion through my own efforts.
I had three computers in a row experience horrible shadow blurring and nothing seemed to fix it. I spent maybe 100 hours meticulously troubleshooting what the hell was wrong before asking a computer savvy friend to come over and take a look, and he was just like “Oh, that’s just TAA, everyone’s computer looks like that.” And lo and behold, if you turn anti-aliasing off, it disappears.
A couple of examples I took while troubleshooting: https://imgur.com/a/cqdgIRq https://imgur.com/a/x6mTKx0
It turns out everyone sees the same thing in almost every game, but until you notice it your brain just filters it out. In many modern games they don’t even give you the option to turn it off. I would have started a hate movement myself, but found out a r/fucktaa community already existed. No lemmy equivalent yet, I believe.
Aaaand there we go. Subreddit it is.
FWIW, it’s hard to tell from gifs, but that amount of ghosting and frame-blending is neither TAA nor a normal thing that is happening on everybody’s computers without them noticing.
I’m not entirely sure of what’s going on there, but your “computer savvy friend” was not right.
Thanks for the source, though. I had been noticing a bunch of people being simultaneously unclear about the difference between temporal antialiasing, temporal upscaling and antialiasing while somehow being extremely opinionated about it and I had no idea how it was going viral. “r/fucktaa” goes some ways towards explaining it. Also why this is probably going to get even more annoying over time as people latch on to yet another random bit of misinfo and run with it.
If those examples are really from your PC I am kinda curious to know what the hell is going on, though. What GPU are you using? Given the way you’re talking about it I’m assuming you aren’t running any custom post-processing via ReShade or any mods or anything like that?
If you had bothered to actually read my post you would realize that I found the sub after the fact.
This is both reproducible and repeatable. I can reliably make it happen in several games, and it goes away completely when I turn off TAA in all cases. It has done this on all 3 of my previous computers, and it happened on two of my friend’s (who insisted it did not) computers when checked. I’m not running any custom post processing. All of our cards were Nvidia, so it’s possibly an Nvidia only thing, but even then the point stands.
I’m much more inclined to believe the effect I’ve done my due diligence to investigate is real, and that it’s simply too mild in most cases for people to notice, than believe some rude stranger with an uninformed “nu uh” and nothing else.
If you put some of that effort you put into sounding right into actually being right, you can find many clips of the same effect on youtube.
It’s not “an Nvidia-only thing”. It’s not a thing at all.
I mean, ghosting artifacts are a thing. Normally not a TAA thing, they are typically a problem with older upscaling methods (your FSR 1s and whatnot). You caaaan get something like that with bad raytracing denoising, but it doesn’t look like that. And your examples are extreme, so it’s either an edge case with a particular situation and a particular configuration or something else entirely.
This is one of those wild claims that become hard to disprove by being so detached from reality it’s hard to start. How do I disprove that hundreds of millions of people who have been gaming in games using TAA for about a decade aren’t constantly ignoring vaseline-smeared visuals on par with the absolute worst artifacts of early DLSS? I mean, I can tell you I played multiple games today and none of them do that, that I’ve played a ton of Cyberpunk and it doesn’t do that and that this is not the default state of a very well understood piece of technology.
It feels weird to even try to be nice about it and bargain. You MAY have stumbled upon a particular bug in a particular config or a game. You MAY be just mistaking “TAA” for temporal upscaling and just using some weird iteration of it in a worst case scenario. I mean, if you’re not outright trolling I can see what you call “too mild in most cases” just being some DLSS ghosting and you’re just lumping several things that cause ghosting as “TAA”. But all that is just… too much credit to the idea, if I’m being honest.
I’d still ike to know what specific GPUs you’re using and how you set up the games when it “happened” in all those computers. Direct video capture wouldn’t be a bad idea, either. I don’t know why I’m even entertaining this as anything other than some weird videogame iteration of flat earth stuff, but I’m still fascinated by how brazen it is and kinda want to know now.
This is you being nice?
The issues with TAA are so widely known, I’m surprised you can be ignorant of them. People in the know generally acknowledge it, but consider it worth the downsides for efficient AA. 99% of the time the effects are much less severe than what I posted, as I had to put in effort to find a moment to illustrate what was happening to diagnose it, but once you see it you can’t unsee it.
Essentially it’s like if I was talking about screen tearing, and you were arguing that screen tearing didn’t exist because “hundred of millions of people” weren’t experiencing it. Most people don’t even notice the screen tearing until you tell them it’s happening. The TAA blurring is even harder to spot. Also, people ARE experiencing the blurring, which is why enough people talk about it to annoy you. They also have documented evidence of the exact same thing I’m talking about, if you actually cared to look.
To be honest I’m not convinced you’re here in good faith and not to troll me, so I’m going to block you and move on. If you actually are curious, google “what are the issues with TAA” and plenty of people will have clips just like mine taken with capture software with their specs and settings listed.
No, there are definitely tradeoffs with TAA. Just… not extreme ghosting trails like the stuff you posted unless something is kinda glitchy. Which is where the weird layers of misinformation seem to be creeping out. You have a layer of people talking about how they find soft looking TAA images annoying and what seems to be an expanding blob of people attributing a whole bunch of other stuff to the thing as if it was the standard, which it absolutely isn’t.
FWIW, I took a peek at that subreddit and it’s mostly relatively informed nerds obsessing over maxing out for a specific thing (edge sharpness, presumably) over anything else. I was pleasantly surprised to see they’re not as much of a cultish thing where soft edges or upscaling are anathema and instead they mostly seem interested in sharing examples of places where temporal upscaling works better/worse than TAA.
Most of them are doing so in video so compressed it’s impossible to tell what looks better or worse than that, but hey, it’s at least not entirely delusional.
What’s your favorite game? Realistic graphics or otherwise
That’s a very random question asked in a very random place.
I don’t know, what year are we on and how am I feeling that day? I’ve played thousands of games, “my favorite” is entirely meaningless.
Currently I’m trying to find time to get through Expedition 33, I just found out that there is apparently a Tetris the Grand Master 4, so I’m messing around with that. I’ve booted up Capcom Fighting Collection 2, I am staring at the 80 bucks price point on Doom Dark Ages and reminding myself I won’t have time to play that for at least a few weeks and I should wait. Steam says my most played games are Metaphor Re: Fantazio, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Street Fighter 6 and Metal Gear V. Nintendo says it is Breath of the Wild. I have 100%-ed the Insomniac Spider-Man trilogy twice. I can beat Streets of Rage 2 in speedrun-worthy times and I’ve played through a bunch of 4.
This is not a question, it’s an existential crisis.
It might be less strange than you think. I’d like to clarify that I’m not trying to take away your gamer creds or anything.
I just wanted to know where your style was, if you had a preference for a certain type of graphical design, but it seems like you’re very widespread in interests with a (current) leaning towards modern games. I haven’t personally tried any of the games on your list because I can’t run them but they should be fun
Somebody once told me about cinephiles that “some people really like movies, other people really like the movies they like”.
I like games, man.
There are very few types of games I outright reject. At most I’ll tell you I’m pretty antisocial and I don’t like multiplayer stuff as much, but it’s not a hard rule.